Rev 4:
Chuck Smith wrote:
I believe that the rapture of the church takes place in verse one of Revelation 4 - after the things of the church history are completed. John heard a voice as a trumpet saying, "Come up hither, and I will show you things that shall be after these things." Now John will see the things that shall take place after the church is gone.Contrary to Smith, this first text is not a text at all, it is a chapter divide, namely the chapter divide that starts at Rev 4 verse 1. John is asked to come up into Heaven to view a heavenly scene. What this has to do with the rapture is hard to discern. John being transported to Heaven for a revelation from God has nothing to do with the church being taken to Heaven for 7 years (or even part of seven years). Just because John got to see something doesn't mean that future people would see something.
This particular connection is one of the most imaginative of all Dispensational ideas and it is based on the theory that the book of Revelation is time ordered/coded with events from earlier at the start and events from later at the beginning. At best it's an allegorical reading of the text. There is nothing in that text that indicates that the church will be taken up into Heaven. The text is clear, it is John the Revelator who is in Heaven at this point in the text, not the church.
1 Thes 4:16:
This text is:
1Th 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.Unfortunately the previous two verses are ommitted by Smith. The entire section, read it context, reads:
1Th 4:14-17 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.Listing out the events in the order listed in the passage:
-The Lord descents from HeavenBefore the rapture teaching was invented it was uniformly believed that this text described the descent of Jesus with the saints at the start of His earthly reign. The dead are raised and the living are transformed into their immortal bodies. They remain on the Earth with Christ. This is completely consistent with the text. The only way to get Smith's view is to read it into the text and then the problems multiply. For instance;
-There is a shout which is the voice of the archangel (no secret coming there)
-The trumpet sounds (the trumpets are at the end of the tribulation)
-The dead are raised (the resurrection)
-The alive people are taken up to meet them in the clouds (we know they are clothed with immortality at that point)
-We all go to be with the Lord
Problem #1 - When will this happen?
If this event is 7 years (or any period of time) before next Second Coming then there would need to be another resurrection at that time. There are no texts which support two resurrection of the righteous, just one at the end of time.
Problem #2 - Where is the second Second Coming in Scripture?
Secondly, there is no second translation of the living anywhere in Scripture. What happens to those who believe in Christ at His second Second Coming? Presumably they will need to be translated as well.
Problem #3 - Down and back or Down?
Thirdly, what is presumed by Smith is that Christ comes down and then goes back up again. This view is not supported by the text which does not say which direction Jesus is going. Since Jesus is bringing the souls of the dead with Him to be raised in their resurrected bodies, why taken them back to Heaven at all? There's no need for resurrection bodies in Heaven.
The Historical Views
Historical Pre-millennialists believed that the 1000 year Millennium started at that point in time. Amillennialists disagreed and stated that the church age constituted the millennium. It is a misnomer to say Amillennialist in that Amillennialists don't believe in any sort of millennium, rather they believe that the Millennium in Revelation is a description of the current time frame.
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